"To the impartial eye, the world not only seems an unlikely one-off phenomenon, but a constant strain on reason. If reason exists, that is, if a neutral reason exists. So speaks the voice from within. So speaks Joker's voice." - Jostein Gaarder

Thursday, November 03, 2005

Hijab, a follow up!

Okay, I got the feeling that all Syrian, Jordanian and probably Saudi bloggers had their chance to read and comment Roba's Hijab Post!
This is just another add-in to the dialogue.

Hijab, something I'm not really comfortable talking about.. 1st of all cuz it may end up insulting someone indirectly, and I've been tryna avoid doing that here, 2nd of all, Hijab in Syria [it's fair enough to say, in SOME parts and with SOME ppl] is more than spiritual and religious idea, it's a sectarian [on both sides] symbol and insuarance [we all remember Rifaat's "Secularist" incident]. so, I wasn't really very enthusiastic about this...

but, I guess u're gonna break the ice someday.. so here it goes..

regarding Roba's post itself, I do have some remarks, I don't think it was "Tolerant enough" although I might 100% agree with the gist and what's beyond that gist, but the sarcastic form wasn't really helpful.

The thing is, 2 days ago I was rechecking the comments section and a particular comment caught my eye... u can see the whole context in Roba's post... but I was a bit shocked to read something like, and I qoute..

About asking why men don’t have to cover their hair, I think cuz beauty of men don’t attract women as much as their characters and other things! There r lots of things to count in men before thinking in their beauty, while men usually attract physically towards women, I guess!

I'm not gonna start of how this sentence is soo demeaning to both Men and Woman!!
It's like, Men are just sex maniacs, and women, well, they're just pieces of meat, they need to cover up so they won't "decompose"!!
AND That whole part of physical qualities of men not attracting women?!! come on!!

[I'm sorry, I don't mean to be offensive]

And finally the verse of Quran was dedicated to women not to men! A lot of things may don’t have sense for us ppl, but since God said it, and he who created us, we should do it!

that's what it's all about, I can't do stuff I don't understand.
Why should I?! cuz God said so, who says God is wiser than "us ppl"?! HE actually said that too, he said that he's wiser!! [HELLO, anybody here feels wierd about this??!!!] that's the point, I have to understand it to believe it, I have to touch it, to feel it to believe it.
That's what's free will is all bout, I'm a human being I have my own will, it's fair enough that at least he tries to convince me into it, not obligate me without the least attempt of making it readable!
[again, I really mean no offense, just hypothetically speaking]

Hijab, I honestly feel that it is demeaning to a female, unless she in her own will chose to wear it, and very few do that. I haven't met a lot of females who actually given a thought of WHY are we wearing Hijab? although I might not agree with ur "WHY" analysis, but I can only respect it and respect ur own will and choice...
On the other hand, I won't [definitly] "disrespect" a female wearing Hijab just because her mom does, but I don't think that I'd have much respect for such choice.

I'm not arguing AGAINST Hijab here, before I do that, I need to believe that we've reached a time where Hijab is actually a choice, only then I can argue against it, cuz I know I'd be arguing other ppl with thoroughly-thought beliefs. until then I'm arguing the fact that Hijab IS a choice!!

The thing is, from a guy's perspective, with Hijab comes a lot of restrictions. sometimes it could be depressing if u don't understand it.. and most of em I can't really understand.


Blogger no one said...

one of the most things i hate is to discuse religious stuff in public..
y3ni what's ur point here? that hijab is not fared? fine it's not fared..keep this idea for urself..

it just we will never change..even those who think themselves as civilized ppl stick their nose in these things!!!!

November 03, 2005 3:25 AM

Blogger Zena said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

November 03, 2005 4:10 AM

Blogger Zena said...

Discussing religion always ends in huge arguments, but I have to say that sometime these discussions could be enlightening.

Hijab is a myesatery and always will be, verses from the Quran are always argued and no logical answer is given, but we have to bare in mind that what sounds logical to us doesnt to others.

Yazan, there is freedom in how you demonstrate your belife, some women I know show pride in wearing hijab, I know you have nothing against it, but we can't argue its usefuleness.

It is going to come as a surprise to you, but I wore the hijab for 5 months and I do confess I wore it to seek salvation and comfort, but I never got it.So I realized that we all get our comfort in different ways.

I can't prove that hijab should be worn or not, as I cant argue with or against it, unfourtanetly wearing a cloth on your head is not stopping women from represnting bad role models in this country.

Ethics shouldn't always be linked to religion, we should demonstrate morals and values regardless of what we believe in.

November 03, 2005 4:13 AM

Blogger Sinan said...

Man I read all your post and I can say that it wasn't a bit disturbing till the last paragraph. Again if you didn't have the fortunate luck to meet someone who wears the Hijab cause she's convinced in it, that doesn't mean there is none. As far as I am concern all the women I know wear the hijab cause they are, well besides one who removed it after a while, but that doesn't mean that I believe that all women wear it willingly. What I am trying to say is please don't generalize.

Back to the Hijab issue me and you had a conservation where we agreed that the beauty of Koran is that it can be interpreted in many ways. So why don't we classify the Hijab issue under such a category?? Different interpretation? And try to be civilized for once and acknowledge the others believes without judging them. Besides I really think that we men should be the last to argue about such issue, women are the concerned, just let them make their mind.

November 03, 2005 7:19 AM

Blogger Yazan said...

Just a quick reply to [No One]
Well, I donno about u, but what u wrote is no where near "civilized discussion", Hijab is an issue, it's a part of my society, and I have my say in it, I'm not lobbying anyone, no one is forcing u to do anything, no one is even asking u to read it... the point of this blog is to speak my mind out, and this is what I'm doing, if u don't feel like u can come here and discuss what I'm saying with arguments like everybody else without giving me attitude.. then maybe u shouldn't be here at all.
This is the first time I say this to anyone, and I'm sorry it had to be u, but comments like "Keep it to yourself" are definitley not welcome on this blog...

As for Sinan, and Zena... I'll reply ASAP..

November 03, 2005 8:16 AM

Blogger no one said...

بحياتنا ..لك بحياتنا ما رح نصير

November 03, 2005 8:58 AM

Blogger Roba said...

Good points Yazan. I always get annoyed fron the whole portrayal of men as sex animals.. I'm not a man, but there are many great men, and it's absolutely offensive to hear that! It's a wrong mentality.

November 03, 2005 10:04 AM

Blogger Yazan said...

Well, There shouldn't be anything above discussion... cuz that's when we close our minds completely and live in our own little world..
Where in my post did u feel I insulted women who wear Hijab?! Hijab is like any other thing, any other Idea, stand... I respect ur ideas if u REALLY believe in them [and thus respect u too as a person]. The more self easteam u have, and the more u are confident about ur ideas, the more u respect others confidence and self-easteam. and the more others WILL!!
I'm not [PROVING] anything, Zena... u misunderstood the whole post. someone asked about how I see the Issue of Hijab... and I simply answered... These things are personal decisions [that's the point, CHOICE] I support any choice u make, taking in concideration that U and ONLY U made that choice, it's non of my business what this CHOICE is based upon as long as u, urself had made it.
I have the right to argue Hijab, just as anyone has the right to argue other issues like Alcohol, Abortion, ANYTHING, nothing is TOO SACRED to talk it out.

Where in my post exactly did u see "I NEVER met somone who's chosen Hijab"???!!! infact the very same person who asked for this opinion had already chosen Hijab on free will.
But let's face it Sinan... what's the numbers?!! can u deny that most of the ppl are still wearing it based on social and repression reasons??! PLZ Sinan, Read the post again.

What do u mean "And try to be civilized for once and acknowledge the others believes without judging them"?????!!
I donno if I'm misinterpreting that sentence but,???!!

besides, Where was I judgmental?! can u qoute?!!! PLZ?!
The thing I said was "On the other hand, I won't [definitly] "disrespect" a female wearing Hijab just because he mom does, but I don't think that I'd have much respect for such choice."

and I still Stand firm on that point. I DO NOT RESPECT DEFEATED, CONQUERED, COMPELLED and FORCED ppl... I'm sorry, I learned to fight fiercely for my right of CHOSING, and I DO NOT respect ppl who let go of that right that easily! with no fight at all...
I'd feel about these women wearing Hijab because her mom made her, just the way I feel about a girl wearing a mini-skirt to please her bf while feeling like a bitch inside!!! it's not about what u wear... it's about how TRUE u are to urself... I KNOW U KNOW THIS!!! I JUST HAD TO SAY IT AGAIN, CUZ CLEARLY U CAN'T FIND IT ANYWHERE IN THE POST!!!
Sinan, Look deeper, we might stand on far away and different grounds, but we're walking the same path... one parallel path in 2 different continents. into 2 different end points, not different as much as distant ;)

@No One
Excuse Me?!

November 03, 2005 10:05 AM

Blogger Stellar said...

ok, as a hijabi and Yazan's friend, I'm going to step in...

I read Yazan's post and I have to say, I'm not that offended. I mean I agree a lot of women where the hijab out of tradition more than conviction. Doesn't mean anything... I've known both kinds.

This is my story in simple form..
I first worse it at 12 because my mom does. I took it off because I couldn't find peace within it at the age of 17. Then at the age of 26 I have it on again, this time with strong conviction.

My point is..I understand all point of views...


November 03, 2005 11:31 AM

Blogger Sinan said...

Well regarding my comment, the first part was addressed to you, and I agree with you, I am totally against any kind of forcing whether it was physically or mentally, that at least you know that we agree on. However the second part was just a message I am trying to get to all ppl, it wasn't really about your post, and I should've made it clearer.

As for looking to the numbers neither me or you can determine it, I don't recall any studies that dealt with statistics regarding the whole issue, and even if there is you’ll be surprised that very few will admit and tell the truth, it’s still a very sensitive issue that our society is not ready to discuss or open. In my closed community which is by the way not the Islamist levy but let's say the intellectual one, women are granted the same rights you would find in an intellectual liberate medium, they study, they work, they choose their husbands, and as far as I know don't face any kind of discrimination, of course that's a small chunk of the society. I never said there aren’t women who are forced to wear the hijab, I never denied it, there is, and a huge number to be honest. But what I am trying to say generalizing one way or another affect and hurt such communities.

Again as long as we have the same goal in our mind which is the total freedom of our ppl whereas it was social, religious, political, etc.. I think we're in the same place not at different ends of continent. :)

And there isn’t right or wrong in here, it’s not a battle we’re fighting to prove the others are wrong, the important thing is to reach common grounds and respect each others’ opinion, I know you that and work this way, this a message to the rest.

November 03, 2005 1:38 PM

Blogger Zena said...

Hey Yazan,

I didn't mean to sound aggressive or like I was attacking, actually I was reassuring, when I mention someone's name in a post I reassure, thats it.
I am not against discussing anything as long as we don't take anything so personal, I had the chance to argue with some friends and believe me I ended up being named an athiest.

Not all ppl are open enough or lets say confident to discuss their ideas, some fear that that might offend others.

No One was an example of someone who took it personally, there was nothing wrong with your post Yazan,I was just merely pointing out something thats all, and from now on I will not write your name YAZAN.
There is more to life than wearing hijab and arguing over it, I think we are in deep shit and need to collect our selves and fix our lives.

November 03, 2005 9:12 PM

Blogger Yazan said...

I think we've reached our middle grounds sinan!!! ;)
I absolutly agree about the numbers thingy,
and I agree that generalzing is the worst thing we can do in such societies. but the thing is, i feel that when u make a choice, u'd feel absolutly comfortable talking about it!!! my personal view of the matter!!

I didn't take it offensivly... ;)

November 03, 2005 9:34 PM

Blogger Omar said...

I agree with your views..
I think unless a girl wishes to wear hijab, she shouldn't have to.

Our society puts lots of pressure on girls to wear hijab, and I find that disgusting.

November 04, 2005 1:46 PM

Anonymous Abeer said...

i started writing a comment.. but it got too long.. so i'm gonna reply with a post on my blog soon :)

November 05, 2005 2:55 AM

Blogger damdom said...

i was writing a comment, but i ended up writing a whole post, if you're interested, it's on right now...

November 06, 2005 7:03 AM

Blogger Majd said...

hay Yazan, I loved your post wallah!
I don't wanna be in the fight but we're all humans and we all has the freedom to talk about what we are thinking about ..

it is always forbidden to talk about such subjects .. and whenever we enter such discussion we find our self stucked with no result cause of extremism..

no one should learn to listen!, I mean everyone should learn to listen .. and most of ppl in our society knows nothing about listening to other view points ..

November 08, 2005 3:10 AM

Blogger Sharks said...

[who says God is wiser than "us ppl"?!]!!!!!!!....Honestly!...i don't think it's a smart thing to say!....

November 08, 2005 7:26 PM

Blogger Yazan said...

is it so hard to believe in a limit-less Humanity...?

November 08, 2005 7:30 PM

Blogger Sharks said...

Well!...since i don't know u n' i don't know anything' about where u stand from religion...i don't think it's smart to start discussing it here...[n' am not judging u in any way!]....but a way from all that...think with me my friend...what kind of limit-less humanity is that when a microscopic low-being creatures...germs or virus can kill the "all mighty" human body!!...

November 09, 2005 7:13 PM

Blogger Yazan said...

well, throughout my blog, I've made it pretty clear where I stand from religion...

I'm BOTH Atheist and Secularist [there's a difference], that's the highlights of my religious status [it's negotiable and flexible... like everything else in life]...

Does that mean that we are limited?! I don't think so... ignorance doesn't mean disability ;)

I believe in Humanity as a whole. I believe that in a series of coincedences [I CAN NOT PROVE any of this, just like u can't prove god's existance, they're just beliefs and possibilities] we reached to a level where we have our own consciousness... which means a definite higher rate of evolving... those are highlights... I can't get into details... but anyways..

November 10, 2005 12:55 AM

Anonymous Shahrezad said...

i find that this is a very 'interesting' issues to discuss, however im a bit lagged. I agree with front bumper, so much. Im a muslim girl from Malaysia... and if u dont know in my country so many women wear hijab without understanding the purpose of it. You can see girls with hijab as young as 13yo holding hands with their bf everywhere in Kuala Lumpur, they wear hijab while wearing tight jeans and figure hugging top, and whata worst is that, university student caught in camera committing adultery while the girl was still wearing the headscarf when they did it. (astaghfirullah). If its too embarrassing, (i feel ashamed writing this) and its a social disease. The cause is that, all these girls are ppressured or forced to wear hijab, and they actually don't wanna do it, hijab becaomes a trend and fashion. Peple become hypocrites, they wear hijab so that they will not be critised and their parents name is 'saved'. But ofcourse there r alot girls really wear it because of eeman solely, and on their own will. That is why, in my opinion hijab should be a choice but women should be taught about hijab untill she is ready to wear it, and, as you say, practise the true meaning of hijab. As you said with hijab comes other responsibilties, it is a hard task only Allah knows. As for me, i wore hijab since i was seven becus it is the rule in school, and bcus my parents told me so. But i kept on asking my mother, why do we have to wear hijab??? Isnt covering the whole body except your head and mebbe hand to elbow is decent enough??? Why hair? Whats with hair anyway??? Nobody gave me a satisfying asnwer. So im wearing it without feeling convinced. Now here studying in United Kingdom, i took of my hijab temporarily, becus i have experienced of antiIslam attacks. I was spitted on the face, lil boys throwing stones at me, collegues ignoring me and etc... list is too long. Instead of hijab becoming a salvation it becomes attraction from harrassers. I dunno whether i will wear hijab back, mebe i will, but after understanding few things when im not a hijab wearer. To be honest, its really hard to be a muslim woman, sometimes men never appreciate the sacrifices that we do.....

November 20, 2005 9:51 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

where can i get more info?

January 16, 2006 2:13 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Baby, it's all good! - A modern hijab poem

Author unknown

What do you see when you look at me
Do you see someone limited, or someone free
All some people can do is just look and stare
Simply because they can't see my hair
Others think I am controlled and uneducated
They think that I am limited and un-liberated
They are so thankful that they are not me
Because they would like to remain 'free'

Well free isn't exactly the word I would've used
Describing women who are cheated on and abused
They think that I do not have opinions or voice
They think that being hooded isn't my choice
They think that the hood makes me look caged
That my husband or dad are totally outraged
All they can do is look at me in fear
And in my eye there is a tear

Not because I have been stared at or made fun of
But because people are ignoring the One up above
On the day of judgment they will be the fools
Because they were too ashamed to play by their own rules
Maybe the guys won't think I am a cutie
But at least I am filled with more inner beauty
See I have declined from being a guy's toy
Because I won't let myself be controlled by a boy

Real men are able to appreciate my mind
And aren't busy looking at my behind
Hooded girls are the ones really helping the Muslim cause
The role that we play definitely deserves applause
I will be recognized because I am smart and bright
And because some people are inspired by my sight
The smart ones are attracted by my tranquility
In the back of their mind they wish they were me

We have the strength to do what we think is right
Even if it means putting up a life long fight
You see we are not controlled by a mini skirt and tight shirt
We are given only respect, and never treated like dirt
So you see, we are the ones that are free and liberated
We are not the ones that are sexually terrorized and violated
We are the ones that are free and pure
We're free of STD's that have no cure

So when people ask you how you feel about the hood
Just sum it up by saying, 'Baby its all good'

October 04, 2006 4:19 AM

Anonymous syrian said...

I respect your opinion and highly support it. About 40 years ago, less women wear hijab in Syria than they do today; I wonder if people have become more religious or major national and international events have played a role! It maybe possible that our culture of sex-separtion have played a role in that where men are men are hawks and women are rabbits.

October 22, 2006 3:13 AM

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